[Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Discussing the ongoing legal proceedings and all things relating to Bitcoin-24
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btc24refund
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

[Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Post by btc24refund » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:58 am

Dear BTC-24 victims,

Yesterday I have received the official report from our lawyer. Without further ado, I recommend you start reading at the following URL's. For privacy reasons I have concealed my own name. I recommend to make a copy of it, for your own personal record.

Page 1:
http://i58.tinypic.com/k3m29.png

Page 2:
http://i58.tinypic.com/2ugi2k0.png


After having read the documents we can make the following conclusions:

-The case is still under investigation. This is a good thing as this will also mean that the money has not been touched. Later in the letter this fact gets repeated. Fortunately the money has gone no where yet which is very comforting to have heard from a different source for a change. Probably the most valuable information we could have asked for.

-It is unknown if Simon is the only suspect in the case or whether there are more.

-Unfortunately, a request to inspect the case files have been denied. This is most likely due to the fact that the case is still being built up against Simon. Letting out information regarding this case could strengthen Simon's position -should- they continue with prosecution. Which is uncertain as well.

-It's the most obvious assumption, but a assumption nontheless that the accusations lie at money laundering

-Interesting detail is that the prosecution is focused on "The main fraudulent action and does not focus on the smaller scale participants". Note action, rather than actions. It is my assumption that there had probably been one large money laundering action which resulted in roughly a million euro's being laundered.

It's speculation from my side that bitcoins have been bought for this sum and withdrawn. I have no proof for this though. It is also interesting to note that the action does not focus on the smaller scale participants. How would the prosecutor know what a "smaller scale participant" is? I can tell that a few victims owe -a lot-.

-Our lawyer can't do much at the moment as the case is still being built against Simon. What he can do and advises to do, is to formally file a motion where we declare to be a victim. This would ensure all participants who file the motion, to not end at the end of the payout queue when damaged have to be paid.

The lawyer offers this service for 80 euro's per person when 50 victims sign up for this service. When there are fewer victims the cost will probably rise per person. Naturally this works both ways. What i'd like to do is bargain for a lower price per person when there are more than 50 victims that sign up. Do note that these 80 euro's only ensure that you have been registered as damaged party and that you wish to make a claim. Whenever the case goes to court, there will most likely be more costs involved. A good question might be to ask the lawyer what he roughly expects as ballpark figure when we know how many people sign up.

If you are interested in following this legal path, then please sent a blank e-mail to btc24.refund <at> gmail <dot> com and add in the topic "join legal action". I will then be able to make a headcount how many people are interested and start bargaining.

Having said all this, there are bound to be a lot of questions. The lawyer has specifically asked me to filter out the most important questions. What I plan to do ask you to join the discussion on our forum located in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=448

Let's get the questions fired away!

Any donation is welcome at wallet: 12eEc2AHzpdw37udZ95Qg3Av3ahwyii47T

It is also possible to transfer donations via Bankwire, if you are willing to donate via that route, please contact me personally for further details. Donations done through bankwire will also be posted anonymized on the forum for transparancy and verification purposes.

Regards,
Jeff

btc24refund
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: [Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Post by btc24refund » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:06 pm

After having thanked the lawyer for his report, he replied the following:

=====


Hi Jeff,

Thanks for confirmation – I shall await for your feedback. I know there aren’t as many details as we would like to have but I am sure it would be much easier to cooperate with the prosecution when I formally access the case, especially representing a big group of the victims. Despite the time that had lapsed it seems that the case is’t very close to be sent to the further stage so if you all join in with your testimonies it may move the case forward and give you control on what is happening further.

You asked me once how do I see the leading prosecutor… you may see him here:-) http://www.tvp.pl/gorzow-wielkopolski/n ... p/17255296 where he discusses the money laundering cases in our regional TV warning people before the common risks. He is very professional and I am sure our cooperation shall be fine and he shall be open to help out the victims.

Kind regards,

Jakub

===

Unfortunately, I cannot view this video as you need to be residing in Poland I believe.

bernard75
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: [Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Post by bernard75 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:08 pm

Since you asked for it:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6&p=187#p187
I supplied more info for free and it didnt take 3 months.
All you did is add a lot of unnecessary text like:
conclusions, unknown, whether, Unfortunately, denied, most likely, uncertain, most obvious assumption, but a assumption nontheless, It is my assumption, It's speculation from my side, I have no proof for this though, Our lawyer can't do much at the moment...

Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: [Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Post by Admin » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:26 pm

bernard75 wrote:Since you asked for it:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6&p=187#p187
I supplied more info for free and it didnt take 3 months.
All you did is add a lot of unnecessary text like:
conclusions, unknown, whether, Unfortunately, denied, most likely, uncertain, most obvious assumption, but a assumption nontheless, It is my assumption, It's speculation from my side, I have no proof for this though, Our lawyer can't do much at the moment...
So, do you have anything value to contribute to the forum bernard75? It seems all you're capable of adding to this forum is criticism of the efforts of those trying to get our funds returned.

As you seem to have a good idea about the battle we're facing, maybe you can suggest the next steps?

bernard75
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: [Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Post by bernard75 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:30 pm

I reported to your master this by PM in August:
I spent more than 500€ until now, but my lawyer is working the case for over 1 year.
There are lawyer portals in Poland where you present your case, get an analysis and a quote for free.
If you write a text i would be more than happy to translate it and you can post it there.
From the answers you can choose the proper lawyer from the region.
After that radio silence from your master.

If this is still a democracy the lawyer of the party most concerned should have access to all the documents!

Next steps would be suing Simon(prolly as senseless as suing the LTD) in Germany, but thats too premature, since he can always claim its due to the proceedings in Poland.

And i cant stress this enough, with the major vote for 72% you basically gave all your rights to a real claim away and only made the ubercammmer richer.

timoue
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:19 am

Re: [Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Post by timoue » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:25 pm

bernard75, I don't fully comprehend your message. But it sounds like you have some good ideas. Can you elaborate a bit, please?
bernard75 wrote:If this is still a democracy the lawyer of the party most concerned should have access to all the documents!
Who would that be? You mean the person with the highest damage? And what documents are you refering to? The ones that were sent by the lawyer to Jeff a week ago?
bernard75 wrote:Next steps would be suing Simon(prolly as senseless as suing the LTD) in Germany, but thats too premature, since he can always claim its due to the proceedings in Poland.
I agree that at some point Simon will either have to become active or we will have to sue him. I will open a new thread to discuss our position against him.
bernard75 wrote:And i cant stress this enough, with the major vote for 72% you basically gave all your rights to a real claim away and only made the ubercammmer richer.
I all the documents from Simon it never stated that we are waiving any rights to a full refund. Actually, I remember there was even a statement that accepting the 72% would not affect the remaining claims. Did you take your 72% or did you not take it because you want to retain the right to sue Simon? And who exactly is this "ubercammmer", who got richer? In my view, noone is getting richer at the moment, except for maybe some dodgy peole in the Polish authorities.

btc24refund
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: [Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Post by btc24refund » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:59 am

bernard75 wrote:I reported to your master this by PM in August:
I spent more than 500€ until now, but my lawyer is working the case for over 1 year.
There are lawyer portals in Poland where you present your case, get an analysis and a quote for free.
If you write a text i would be more than happy to translate it and you can post it there.
From the answers you can choose the proper lawyer from the region.
After that radio silence from your master.
Given the fact that you haven't shared any official documents of the case rings an alarm bell. It's been asked twice by me on the old forum. You simply ignored it. Even if you say I'm lying and I didn't ask, sharing is caring, right? Not in your book apparently; rather seeing more money being blown on lawyers. Not sharing was one of the motivators to start looking for a lawyer ourselves and inform the community of this next step.

Then all of a sudden you offer yourself to find a lawyer. It's a bit suspicious don't you think? To maintain, without a shadow of a doubt, the produced results of the lawyer would be legitimate, I'd have to look for one myself. Who knows what lawyer you would return with? I can now say that the official produced results are 100% legitimate.

Add your marvelous behavior as a human being on top of that, really trying to stir up some FUD with no reason. Add it all together and you might just be an accomplice of Simon trying to sabotage these efforts.

But tell you what; you can redeem yourself. If you can finally move yourself to share the official documents your lawyer has produced, including invoices; you'd finally be contributing something useful rather than stating the obvious. That is, if you really have found a lawyer who could inspect the case files and such.

Proof-time Bernard, either put up or shut up. ;)

bernard75
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: [Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Post by bernard75 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Shut up it is then.
No point talking to somebody with a reading disability additional to twisting the facts.

btc24refund
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: [Mailing #36] The lawyer's report is in!

Post by btc24refund » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:25 am

bernard75 wrote:Shut up it is then.
No point talking to somebody with a reading disability additional to twisting the facts.
Good try, but let's stick to the point!

I'm not asking you to talk to me, I'm asking you to share your information. In particular your official documentation so it can be verified. Apparently you still deny this request.

And really, I could care less for your baseless accusations and nitpicking on me as a person.
What I do care about is getting back what belongs to us. This should include you as well. All the more reason to share your information, don't you think? Even if it is redundant, it's good to have the same information from different sources.

Please prove me wrong, Bernard. That is, if you can.
Because frankly, until proven different, you're still just full of hot air.

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