Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Discussing the ongoing legal proceedings and all things relating to Bitcoin-24
btc24refund
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by btc24refund » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:50 am

Dear BTC-24 victims,

In this topic you can ask, discuss and debate regarding the report we have received from the lawyer. If you have any questions, post them here and when we have accumulated a nice list of questions, I will send it towards the lawyer for answering.

davejc
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:22 am

Re: Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by davejc » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:04 pm

I have E73 outstanding which seems to imply I have given it to the Polish prosecutor or towards Simon's defence since there is little point paying E80 to recover it.

spookyrufus
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:45 am
Contact:

Re: Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by spookyrufus » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:07 pm

To my understanding the situation is not quite clear at the moment: agreeing to pay these 80 euros would give us no guarantees or not even an outlook of how the situation might look after that step. I have maybe some 300 eur outstanding, and if these 80 are jsut the first step of many, I reckon that paying those out of my pocket with no reassurances would put me in a more uncomfortable spot than where i am now.
This is mostly due to me not understanding what the chances are, once I pay these 80, to eventually get to a complete resolution of this matter.

Also, a huge thank you to Jeff for bringing the process to its current state.

Floater
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:34 am

Re: Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by Floater » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:38 pm

I have 5000Eur still missing. However I do not see what this lawyer can do for us. It is strange that this polish lawyer would accept money from us well knowing that we are not legally a party in this conflict. We could only sue Simon, not the polish authorities.
So what exactly does the lawyer can offer us?

Sarwane
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:56 pm

Re: Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by Sarwane » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:08 pm

Hello all!

First: thank you for your efforts, without you there would be no progress for me!

What I have to say to the topic:

I don't think upfront payment is the proper way here (especially without really knowing ANYTHING where the journey goes).
When I look at the total sum involved here, I believe every serious lawyer should be happy to work for a percentage of the value he is (successfully) fighting for (which is the "normal" way for such cases here). If he proves successful in the end, this would be the best for all parties...?

Just my personal 2 ct...

All the best!

btc24refund
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by btc24refund » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:38 pm

davejc wrote:I have E73 outstanding which seems to imply I have given it to the Polish prosecutor or towards Simon's defence since there is little point paying E80 to recover it.
In your situation I agree it would make little sense.
spookyrufus wrote:To my understanding the situation is not quite clear at the moment: agreeing to pay these 80 euros would give us no guarantees or not even an outlook of how the situation might look after that step. I have maybe some 300 eur outstanding, and if these 80 are jsut the first step of many, I reckon that paying those out of my pocket with no reassurances would put me in a more uncomfortable spot than where i am now.
This is mostly due to me not understanding what the chances are, once I pay these 80, to eventually get to a complete resolution of this matter.

Also, a huge thank you to Jeff for bringing the process to its current state.
Your concerns are valid. The only guarantee you have after paying the 80 EUR, as I see it, is that you will be recognised as a damaged party in the matter. I am unsure what this in itself means. Will this put more pressure on the prosecutor to release the funds? Will this put a claim on the confiscated funds and allow us to directly receive it without having to deal with Simon? I don't know. Good to ask the lawyer I think.
Floater wrote:I have 5000Eur still missing. However I do not see what this lawyer can do for us. It is strange that this polish lawyer would accept money from us well knowing that we are not legally a party in this conflict. We could only sue Simon, not the polish authorities.
So what exactly does the lawyer can offer us?
Good observation which still isn't clear. We will probably want to know whether we can squeeze ourselves in between Simon and the confiscated funds. But then a whole new trouble scenario will arrive: How can we genuinely proof that every claim is valid.
Sarwane wrote:Hello all!

First: thank you for your efforts, without you there would be no progress for me!

What I have to say to the topic:

I don't think upfront payment is the proper way here (especially without really knowing ANYTHING where the journey goes).
When I look at the total sum involved here, I believe every serious lawyer should be happy to work for a percentage of the value he is (successfully) fighting for (which is the "normal" way for such cases here). If he proves successful in the end, this would be the best for all parties...?

Just my personal 2 ct...

All the best!
A percentage has been the prefference of the community I think. However, at the current moment the case has not even gone to court. It's not even sure Simon will be prosecuted at all. If there is no prosecution, the funds will be released most likely. Where would we stand then? Would a polish lawyer then still be required? We'd probably need a german or uk lawyer then if he does not want to pay our funds back. On the other hand, it's handy to have a polish pair of eyes on our prize and warn us when to take action.

Izi
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by Izi » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:14 pm

Thank you Jeff, finaly some progress. I hope you will keep us posted when this investigation by prosecutor is finished.

I will just wait and see how this "investigation" that's been going on for 2 years will end. After this I might join if there will be any point in doing so.

Could you ask your lawyer just what's the average length of investigation in Poland (how many years) and average length of trial (how many years).

Ask him also if government has the power to steal our money if they find Simon guilty of some crime. I have this strange that it's really all about the money (Germany solved this in a few months, Poland is procrastinating) and I feel that they just want to get to our money.

vkNFXf
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:34 pm

Re: Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by vkNFXf » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:54 am

Sarwane wrote:Hello all!

I don't think upfront payment is the proper way here (especially without really knowing ANYTHING where the journey goes).
When I look at the total sum involved here, I believe every serious lawyer should be happy to work for a percentage of the value he is (successfully) fighting for (which is the "normal" way for such cases here). If he proves successful in the end, this would be the best for all parties...?

Just my personal 2 ct...
I agree with this. I think the payment should be a porcentage of the money that it is recovered by him. That way even the people with small amounts involved (like those with only 200€) would be able to support the cause. And maybe the lawyer would get a little more than 4000€ (as he is requesting now) for his work.

jenserik
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:31 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by jenserik » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:20 am

Thanks for making this move forward.
I will pay 80 Euro if it registers me as a victim with my name.
The police can check my motives and clear me of any money laundry so the bank can repay me directly.
Is that possible?

jenserik
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:31 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Official Lawyer Report Discussion Topic

Post by jenserik » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:33 am

I believe the polish lawyer is giving us a good offer to make sure we are individually registered as victims - however once I have him as my lawyer, what is next that I will have to pay him to do?

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