Trial in Berlin

Discussing the ongoing legal proceedings and all things relating to Bitcoin-24
timoue
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:19 am

Trial in Berlin

Post by timoue » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:33 pm

According to this post, there was a court seesion in Berlin on February 8th, 2016: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic ... sg13186762
The post says that the case is about
verstoßes gegen das kreditwesengesetz
which translates to violation of the banking law.
Today, the same person posted a short report: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic ... sg13819567
Ich war heute bei der Verhandlung in Berlin als Zeuge.
Ich habe sowohl mit ihm als auch anderen Zeugen gesprochen.

Eigentlich sollte heute ein Urteil fallen, das Verfahren wurde aber vertagt.
Mehr kann ich daher erstmal nicht sagen.

Ich gehe von einem Freispruch aus.
This loosely translates to:
I was in the court session in Berlin as a witness today.
I talked to him (Simon?) as well as other witnesses.

There should have been a ruling today but the session was adjourned/postponed.
I cannot say more at the moment.

I assume that it will be an acquittal.

timoue
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Trial in Berlin

Post by timoue » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:35 pm

I am not sure what to make of this. I was not aware of this trial.
All I can conjecture is that it would be good if Simon was acquitted because then the prosecutor in Poland would have one less reason to keep holding on to the money. But probably it has no effect at all.

btc24refund
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Trial in Berlin

Post by btc24refund » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:45 pm

timoue wrote:I am not sure what to make of this. I was not aware of this trial.
All I can conjecture is that it would be good if Simon was acquitted because then the prosecutor in Poland would have one less reason to keep holding on to the money. But probably it has no effect at all.
It would also be very interesting to know who is the charging party since the frozen funds in Germany were released.

btc24refund
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Trial in Berlin

Post by btc24refund » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:31 pm

So, just to update you. I've immediately sought contact with the poster who mentioned he was at the trial. This is a transcript of our conversation which I thought might be somewhat interesting.

---------------------

I have noticed your recent post regarding the bitcoin-24 trial in Berlin. I was curious if you would be able to share some information about the case and current situation in Germany. I am representing a group of people that have lost access to their money. We have unified ourselves at: http://forum.bitcoin24-victims.co.uk/

Perhaps you would be willing to drop by and tell us your story?

Thank you kindly for your time,

-----

hi,
probably cant tell you more than you already know. the money is still there, it's on a bank account in poland which is confiscated.
you probably are part of the group that is trying to get polish authorities to release the funds?
a "not guilty" for simon in germany would probably help to persuade the polish authorities to be a bit more lenient.
I myself do not have any connection to the thing other than I am friendly with Simon and used to trade on bitcoin-24, but I didnt suffer any loss.


----

You are correct that I am part of the group that is trying to release the funds. Also, we consider ourselves to be friendly with Simon as well since the whole "Polish confiscation"-case can hardly be blamed on Simon. Alas, if there were anything to blame it would be the lack of communication from his side.

Still I hope you would be able to tell us more about the case in Germany. What are the charges and who is behind it? As far as I know the German prosecutor dropped the case and released the money from the Comerzbank to Simon. After which he paid out the users of BTC24.

Perhaps you can also tell us some more about Simon himself; whether he mentioned anything about the case in Poland or what his feeling about the whole BTC24 situation is. As I said before, he is avoiding any contact with us. This is a shame since it would make more sense to team up.

Thank you for your time again,

------

I have been trying to get the prosecutions accusation in writing, my lawyer is on holiday, simon as well now for a week.

I think Simon's silence is prescribed by his lawyers, he does have a case against the polish administation himself, so obv he cannot talk about ongoing proceedings.

cheers

fod
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:22 pm

Re: Trial in Berlin

Post by fod » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:54 am

That is all very interesting. Great job getting this information! There is some uncertainty, but I interpret this as a few pieces of possible good news:
-There is still an ongoing trail against Simon in Germany that he is expected to win. If the case is dismissed, this might give our case more leverage.
-Simon is likely only silent because of orders from his lawyers. This probably means that he would like to cooperate with us but can't.
-Simon might be suing for damages. If this is true and he wins, he might be able to have more funds available for repayment. However, maybe this is too optimistic.

btc24refund
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Trial in Berlin

Post by btc24refund » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:27 am

fod wrote:That is all very interesting. Great job getting this information! There is some uncertainty, but I interpret this as a few pieces of possible good news:
-There is still an ongoing trail against Simon in Germany that he is expected to win. If the case is dismissed, this might give our case more leverage.
-Simon is likely only silent because of orders from his lawyers. This probably means that he would like to cooperate with us but can't.
-Simon might be suing for damages. If this is true and he wins, he might be able to have more funds available for repayment. However, maybe this is too optimistic.
It does not explain the attempts to pull our previous forum down. So let's remain sceptical as always. :)

timoue
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Trial in Berlin

Post by timoue » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:56 am

Here is an update on the trial in Berlin with some good news and some not so great news:

1. I was called and heard as a witness in this trial.
2. During the trial it became very clear to me that neither the judge nor the prosecutor had a very good understanding of what they were talking about.
3. I am no expert on the German "Kreditwesengesetz," but personally and from what I heard, I believe that Simon should have been acquitted.
4. Unfortunately, this court thought otherwise and sentenced him to pay a (very small) fine.
5. It is my understanding that this sentence is not final and that there are means to revoke it, such as revision. I believe that Simon is going to take (or has already taken) these steps.
6. After the trial I spoke to Simon in person. I got a very good impression of Simon! The reason for the long radio silence is (as we expected) the pending trials in Berlin and Poland. I am now convinced that Simon would repay the funds that are currently blocked in Poland if he got access to them.
7. Simon also told me that he is still pushing the case in Poland, though the prosecutor there appears to be in "full blockade" mode. This is also consistent with the impression that I got when I was interviewed by the German police on behalf of the Polish prosecutor.

Let's hope for the best.

Izi
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Trial in Berlin

Post by Izi » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:53 pm

Thank you for the update and I'm glad to hear Simon is still alive. I hope that Polish prosecutor will move forward and do something/anything. We will start the 4th year since our money got blocked by the Polish authorities and no visible movement to this day.

Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: Trial in Berlin

Post by Admin » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:50 pm

Timoue, thank you for sharing this information. I am pleased to hear that you get a good impression of Simon and hopefully his intentions when/if the funds are released.

I can understand the radio silence for 4 years because of the trials but it would have been nice to at least have an update saying that no further comment will be made due to the trials instead of nothing at all.

Izi: It's a shame we're still here all this time later - I think (hope) progress is on the horizon, though perhaps the Polish prosecutor needs some form of encouragement to hurry up.

btc24refund
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Trial in Berlin

Post by btc24refund » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:31 am

Izi wrote:Thank you for the update and I'm glad to hear Simon is still alive. I hope that Polish prosecutor will move forward and do something/anything. We will start the 4th year since our money got blocked by the Polish authorities and no visible movement to this day.
The thing with these legal battles is, they try to stall stuff as long as possible in order to make it as unattractive as possible. They've got another thing coming, because I won't give up untill we get our money back.

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